We sit down with Michelle Glogovac, the Podcast Matchmaker and author of How to Get on Podcasts, to unpack what actually gets you booked and what gets you ignored. We talk about why long form conversations beat short media hits, how podcast interviews can be repurposed into clips and social content, and why podcast SEO in show notes and descriptions turns one appearance into an evergreen asset that keeps showing up in search results.

Then we get tactical: the one page media kit, choosing speaking topics that are specific (not generic), defining your ideal reader so you pitch the right shows, and writing an email that makes it effortless for the host to say yes. We also cover timing, realistic expectations, respectful follow ups, and why chasing only “big” podcasts can be a mistake if the audience will never buy your book. Along the way, Michelle shares an honest take on the blessing and curse of how accessible podcasting is, and why the industry needs higher standards for pitching, hosting, and guesting.

If you want a practical podcast booking strategy for authors and a smarter approach to book promotion, press play. Subscribe, share this with an author friend, and leave a rating and review so more writers can find it.

About Michelle Glogovac

How to Get on Podcasts: https://michelleglogovac.com/how-to-get-on-podcasts/ 

The Podcast Campaign Tour™ Playbook: 

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https://michelleglogovac.com

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Full Transcript

Welcome And Why Podcasts Matter

Joel 0:10

Hi, everybody. Welcome to If I’m Being Honest, Straight Talk About Book Publishing and Promotion. I’m your host, Joel Pitney, and I’m here today with Michelle Glogovac. Michelle is the podcast matchmaker. She’s also an author and a business owner, and I am really excited to have her on the show today.

Michelle 0:30

Hi, Joel. I’m so excited to be here.

Joel 0:32

Yeah. So, you know, uh, Michelle, as your title implies, you are a master of podcasts. Everything about podcasts, getting on podcasts, leveraging podcasts. Um, in my experience in the book industry, podcasts are becoming kind of the new PR. Um and so I thought it’d be great for us just to have a big old conversation about podcasts together. How does that sound?

Michelle 0:58

I love it. Everything podcasting. It is my life. I live and breathe it. So I’m happy to talk about it.

Joel 1:04

Awesome. So

Long Form Trust Beats TV Clips

Joel 1:05

I guess the first thing is um, you know, why podcasts?

Michelle 1:10

Well, besides why not, they are literally the best platform that allows people to get to know you as a person. You know, oftentimes you think PR and you think TV shows, you know, everybody wants to be on the Today Show. Good morning, America, whatever it is, but they’re so short. They’re they’re very short clips. And the beauty of podcasts is not only are they long form, they can be created into multiple ways of content creation that can be repurposed. They also allow you to get to know a person in their own words. You get to hear their voice. People are listening to you and I as if we are having a cup of coffee. Like you, you just sip from your cup. That is literally what we’re doing. We are having a cup of coffee together and just having a conversation. So people get to know you in that regard. And it’s what is going to attract people to want to get to know you more, to buy your book, to look into whatever product or service you might offer because they’ve actually heard you talk to another human being. They’ve been that fly on the wall. I always like to say, I love being the eavesdropper. I will be in a restaurant and I can tell you what the couple over there is talking about. And oh, you know, this happened. And that’s what podcasts allow us to do freely. We’re supposed to be eavesdropping in on conversations. And they also allow us to get to know, especially as we’re talking about authors, the people behind the books that we love. You know, I think that authors are celebrities to me, but we don’t get to actually see them like we do a celebrity on TV. We don’t hear from them as much in their own words. We just know that maybe they’ve got their photo on the back cover. And that is all that we know about them in their little bio. Podcasts allow us to get to know who they really are. Uh, they they let us know what it is about them that’s inside the book. I love that’s my favorite question to ask an author is what’s the truth in the book that’s actually related to you? Because that’s like that hidden gem of a secret that you don’t otherwise get to know. And so that’s the beauty of podcasts. You get to reach so many more people than a simple book signing where you’re hoping that, you know, 20, 30 people might show up to a room or you’re sitting in the bookstore. I mean, I’ve done it, and you’re like, hi, I just want to tell you about my book. Um, would you like to learn more? Podcast lets you reach hundreds, thousands, potentially millions of people by a single conversation that’s 30 minutes to an hour long.

Joel 3:38

Oh, that’s that’s awesome. And I mean, there’s so much to unpack in all that. Um, I think one thing that I’m sort of homing in on in what you said is the is the format. And, you know, a lot of people that I talk to, you know, they’ve been told, oh, I want to be on TV, like you said, I want to be on the Today Show, I want to be on these different things, right? And I’ve been involved in a lot of traditional PR campaigns. And so, and people don’t often realize this, but in that in those segments, you are trying to adapt your message to some newsworthy story, right? And A, most people don’t even have that. And B, they’re gonna try and take one cherry pick one tiny little thing from you and try to adapt it to their story. Right. And you’re gonna get maybe 30 seconds to to two minutes of airtime, whereas in a podcast, it’s all about you.

Mi 4:26

Yeah.

Joel 4:27

We’re talking at least 10 minutes, if not more like 30 minutes. And um it’s a completely different environment.

Michelle 4:34

It absolutely is. And and you can then cherry pick that 10 to 30 minutes into a you know, 30 second to three minute clip so that you can reuse it, but you get that opportunity to really express who you are and what your book is actually about, you get to go in depth. It it is the beauty of long form content versus short form that is great for social media. But the other, the other beautiful thing is it lasts forever. You know, it’s it is on these podcast listening platforms forever because that’s what the internet is. Uh and if we’re using the right SEO in the show notes and the descriptions, then it’s gonna pop up every time somebody Googles either your name or something about your book. It is there and it’s going to keep coming up.

Joel 5:22

That’s awesome. I I mean, this is I don’t know if you have this, but I’d be curious to see data now on the number of people who are starting to listen to podcasts and compare that to people who are watching television or consuming mainstream media.

Michelle 5:36

Yeah, I know that the listeners keep going up. Yeah, it’s definitely continues to go up. It was going up before COVID. Uh and then, you know, you saw a lot of changes during the pandemic because people were adjusting to now I don’t listen from my car or my commute or I’m not at the gym. But they adjusted, they pivoted, and now we’re back to more of regular life again. So listening continues to go up. More podcasts continue to, you know, pop up. And I don’t know what the TV, like I’ve stopped watching the news and stuff. I watch my reality shows, and that’s about it. Um there’s like three nights a week that I know what show I’m going to watch, and that is it. Otherwise, it’s old movies. And so I know that I’m not watching TV the way that we used to. Right. So you’re you’re probably right. I bet you that there’s more podcast listeners. And now we have things like Netflix that

SEO And Content That Lasts

Michelle 6:30

are creating podcasts for you to watch too. So it’s amazing. Yeah, they’re everywhere. They’re not going anywhere.

Joel 6:35

Just follow the money, right? I mean, if Netflix is getting into it, you know that podcasts are, you know, I mean, podcasts have been here for a long time, but that that that was a big deal when they started doing that. But that was in the last year.

Michelle 6:47

That was in the last year, yeah. Yeah. We’re seeing more and more.

Joel 6:51

So, all right. So, you know, obviously podcasts are a great way to go. And the I get I guess the big question is then how do you do it? Right. So, you know, obviously you can hire someone to try and get you on podcasts, but it seems to me like a lot of what you do is you empower people to do it themselves. So how what what how do you go about that? How do you go about getting yourself on podcasts?

Michelle 7:13

Yeah, I wrote my book to how to, it’s called how to get on podcasts, simply because I want people to be able to do it. And I also feel like with so many podcasts in this industry, it is the wild, wild west. And I’m sure you would agree having your show. There is no standard, and I wanted standards. I want people to, I want you to pitch yourself, but I want you to do it in the right way. And so that is why I have how I do it in this book. You’re going to create your own media kit, and you’re, I, there’s templates for you to on how to do it. It’s a one page, it’s simple, but create speaking topics. What is it that you can speak on that is unique to you? Nothing generic. I don’t want to know the best is, you know, I’m an entrepreneur. Well, that’s fantastic. So is like most other people right now. So, what is it specific about you as an entrepreneur? What is it about your book that is unique? You know, tie yourself into your book and share of yourself as well. What has your writing journey been like? What has your career pivots been like? Make those speaking topics unique. And then you need to nail down who is your ideal listener reader. And that way, once you define who you want to talk to, you can then look at podcasts of who has listeners that align with who you want to talk to. So that’s first and foremost. Before you even start pitching yourself, you need to have your homework done. Uh, you need to then start listening to podcasts. Who is it that you want to reach out to? Listen first. Are they still active in life? Because, like before, when I said with COVID, we saw a whole bunch of change. We saw a lot of new shows pop up and then they all went away once they figured out how much work and effort and time goes into it. Uh, they didn’t stick around. So make sure that they are still around and active. Make sure they take guests. The worst is when a client comes to me and says, Oh, I want to be on this podcast. This is so great. And they they align with what I say. And I go, but they don’t take guests. No, don’t waste your own time and their time. Make sure they take a guest and then relate, jot down what episode you are listening to and don’t make it the most recent one. I think that’s a little lazy. Really find an episode that speaks to you. And why does it speak to you? How does it relate to you, to your book? How does it relate to you being a guest on that show? And then you’ll craft your pitch. And it should be unique to the host. Uh, make sure that you use their name. Please use their name, spell it right. Relate to the episode that you listened to. Why did it speak to you? Why is it that that is the one that jumped out at you to listen to? And what are you going to bring to the show? What is it that you are going to bring that nobody else can bring? And then you can list out your speaking topics and then hyperlink everything. Do not give a host homework. If they have to leave your pitch email to go Google you, then you’ve done something wrong. They should not have to leave the email except to click on the link that you have provided.

Build A Media Kit And Pitch

Michelle 10:20

Um, I’m very big on that. Show where you have been uh featured as well. What other interviews have you done that they can go back and look at? And if you haven’t done one, that’s totally okay too. But chances are there’s some video of you out there on the internet that you can provide the host that says, look, I am a real human being, I can have a decent conversation. Here’s a clip of me as well. And do that and then send the email. But do not follow up the next day or even within 48 hours because all of us have actual jobs. We, this is our hobby, this is our side thing. It is not breaking news that your book is coming out. And yes, we are excited for you too, but do not follow up. Don’t say something cutesy like I’m just coming to the top of your inbox again. We know you’re coming to the top of the inbox. So, you know, be gentle and respectful in your follow-ups and give it a couple weeks because chances are that it is on the follow-up that you will get the yes. So that is the key to how you start to pitch and track your pitches so you’re not repeating the pitch to the to the same host, you know, multiple times and be gentle about it. Persistent, polite persistence is always a good thing.

Joel 11:34

Well, so this is really interesting. I actually pulled up the email that you originally sent to me.

Michelle 11:40

Okay, from Allison. Yeah.

Joel 11:41

From Allison. So this is a practice what you preach moment because um I get a lot of queries like this, and a lot of them are AI generated. And I’m pretty, it’s pretty easy for me to quickly go, nope, nope, nope. And I’ll if I get sent one, I’ll send it over to Sadie, my co-host, and we’ll be like, is this legit? And we’ll be like, but yours, you did all the things that you just said. There was there was the uh referring to a recent episode and not just in a BS way, it was true, you could tell. Um, and then adapted a message to this show, which is how you could bring value and uh and edu and insights to this audience. Um, and then there was a polite follow-up a little while while after. And and what do you know? Here we are doing the interview.

Michelle 12:28

It works, you guys.

Joel 12:29

Yeah. And you know, I’m not Joe Rogan or anything, but still, you know, I’m I’m also don’t just accept, I don’t want to talk to anybody. You know, we get a lot of pitches that we just don’t want to don’t want to talk to because we want to make sure that who we’re speaking with has something really valuable to bring to our audience. So it works, everybody.

Michelle 12:46

It works. And you know, when I say relate to an episode, I have found in recent pitches that there’s AI being used by agencies and they’re using the same episode. Uh, and that’s why I know that this is all AI, because just last week I got three pitches, different people for different guests all use the exact same episode to relate to and the exact reasoning why. So that told me I went, I’ve never seen anything like it. Two pitches were within an hour and another one 24 hours later. And I went, well, obviously, this caught one of these engines because that was extremely unique. So make sure you go deeper into the episodes because we notice. We definitely notice.

Joel 13:36

Because we I know what everybody’s trying to do. Yeah. Right, right. Well, so because this this raised an interesting question for me. So a lot of times, uh when we’ll we will often do this kind of outreach for people, try to get them booked on podcasts, or we’ll kind of guide them in a similar way that you do. Uh, we have like an online course, we don’t have a book, but um, and one thing that we we spend a lot of time doing prep is preparing people to for the the proper expectations. Um because even if you find the perfect podcast list, like you’re saying, and you all your homework and you do the right, the you do the right pitch and you do all those things, you’re gonna get more rejections or or crickets than you are enthusiastic yeses. Am I right?

Michelle 14:21

Absolutely. And you know, as a host, I’m guilty of it too. I I hate unread emails in my inbox, but I have 62 of them and they are all author pitches. And that part of it’s overwhelming. You know, if you have that many pitches coming in and you’re going, okay, but this book comes out next week, and that is, by the way, um, way too close. You need to pitch three or four months out. Um, or this book is coming out in the spring. Okay, now who gets priority? Well, I obviously have time if I’m looking at something in the spring for a release, then I do, oh, your book is coming out next week and you want an interview. I don’t have time to read your book. And that is one of my requirements to be on my show is I will read your book before I interview you. So you need to make sure you also have that lead up time before pub day if you’re hoping to get out there for pub day. Um, but remember that I always say a book sale is a book sale no matter when it happens. So, you know, don’t turn down interviews either if it’s they can’t interview you right away because they are booking out. Oh, I’ve I get this. Where, you know, it’s oh we can’t do you until um late fall. Oh, that’s too late for me. So I say no. And I go, mm-mm, you say yes. Absolutely.

Joel 15:35

Well, there’s there’s not a there’s not a pitch. I mean, you can do your pitching earlier, but uh, you know, the first week or month or even year does not make or break your book. Yeah.

Michelle 15:44

No. And so, you know, look at timing because it there’s really no rhyme or reason. It used to be that if we were pitching around the holiday season, it would be quiet. Things have changed. People are now still recording over the holiday season. Summer has been quiet, but then it picks right back up in the fall. So, you know, there’s somewhat of a cycle, but then the cycle’s constantly changing too. So I always give give hosts advanced notice. You know, you can’t expect them to just be able to say yes right away. They are not pining away for your book like you know, a journalist is for breaking news, it’s totally different. And when you hear the crickets, it it’s okay. You know, a no is a no and you can move on from that. But it there, there could be crickets for a reason. I I had a client who said, I really want to be on this podcast. They had this, you know, call to action back in December for debut authors, for this kind of author. And I fit all of these boxes. How come I didn’t get on? And I said, Well, if everybody who listened to this show, which is a popular show, heard what you heard, imagine what their inboxes are like. It’s gonna be way fuller than the amount of guests that they can take on. So it’s not necessarily you. It could be that there’s too many and they can’t interview all of these people. Right. So these are all factors that that come to play.

Joel 17:06

Yep. That’s interesting. Well, so uh another misunderstanding that I think I encounter a lot, I’ll be curious what uh uh for you, is I think some authors will get into their head that they only need to go after the big podcasts, the big ones with the thousands of followers, and and they they don’t want to waste their time with the small little mon pop podcasts or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What do you say to that?

Michelle 17:28

I completely disagree. That is a wrong mentality because chances are that the ones that are huge might not probably don’t have the reader that is going to buy your book. Find the audience that is so niche and speaks to you and all of them. I’d rather have you speak to an audience of a hundred and every single listener wants to buy your book than speak to the Joe Rogan who none of your the his listeners are gonna buy your book. You know, are they gonna buy the beach read? Probably not. Those are not the people listening to Joe Rogan. So you can speak to someone who has millions of listeners,

Rejections Timing And Follow Ups

Michelle 18:05

but nobody buys your book. Well, I’d rather sell a hundred books and speak to a hundred people. So really look at who is listening, who are those people? And, you know, just because it’s a smaller show, it doesn’t mean that it can’t have the potential to reach many more people. If somebody’s listening and they share it, and then their friends are now listening, it has that ripple effect. And then that goes back to you as the guest sharing it as well with your audience, because chances are your followers have not heard everything that you have ever said. And oftentimes I get clients who go, I’m just repeating myself. It doesn’t matter. If it’s social media, the algorithm has not fed your post 15 times to that one follower. They have not heard you. So don’t fear repeating yourself. Well at the same time, if you have your story down and you are repeating it, then people know that’s the truth. So that’s a good thing that people say, Oh, I’ve heard this story before. I can, yes, that’s why politicians do it. Because then we can recognize that story and that is the truth that we know about that person. So don’t be afraid of that and then share it because you never know who else also, when we’re sharing on social media, the algorithm’s gonna pick it up and put it on that for you page to push it out to someone else. So there’s new followers and listeners the more we share.

Joel 19:28

Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Yeah, I mean, it it’s it’s interesting the the the thing about the niches, right? I mean, I almost feel like podcasts are niche PR. And that’s the good news about podcasts is that you don’t have to have a big following. You can find every single little niche podcast in your specific demographic and saturate that audience first.

Michelle 19:55

Yes. Yep.

Joel 19:55

And I’m that’s always gonna be the best audience.

Michelle 19:58

I love that there’s literally something for everyone on every single topic. If you want to cry, I am sure there is a podcast that will make you cry. You want true crime, there’s some of that, you want to laugh, there’s some of that. There is something for everyone, no matter what mood or interest you are in. And so find the ones that are going to buy your book and you know, find those people, and then they’re gonna keep going, oh, I heard Joel on that one. Oh, and there’s Joel again. You know what? Maybe I should go pick up his book. That’s what’s going to happen.

Joel 20:26

So do it. Yeah, that I buy most of the books that I buy are because I heard someone on a podcast.

Michelle 20:33

Yes. And I get so many people, so many people ask me, well, do podcasts actually sell books? And although I don’t have the numbers for all of my clients of how many books they’ve sold, I know that

Niche Shows Sell More Books

Michelle 20:45

every time I show up and I post something on social media or on my podcast and I say, I read this book. This is what I loved about it. You can go to the comments. Oh, I just bought it based on your recommendation. Thank you. They sell books.

Joel 20:58

Yeah.

Michelle 20:58

They truly sell books. Just read the comments.

Joel 21:01

Well, you know, there’s a there’s a really interesting, this is the, you know, just that kind of this is a bit of a riff, but um I think one of I think that it’s important for as an author to recognize that there is value in getting on the podcast anyway, regardless of whether they buy the book. Because a lot of what you’re trying to do is spread your message. A lot of, especially nonfiction art authors, you’ve got a a mission behind your your your book. And I was reading in the I was reading the cover story in the Atlantic a few months ago was about the end of reading.

Mi 21:31

Oh yes, read it and how people just aren’t reading anymore.

Joel 21:34

And then the numbers are staggering. And on one hand, you think, oh, well, that’s awful, that’s horrible. But if you think about it from a perspective of being an author, you write this book, you have all this this knowledge and this wisdom and this story you want to share. Some people are book readers and they’re gonna read that book. But there’s gonna be some people who only listen to podcasts, and they they would they would never read your book anyway. So you’re able to reach that person and have an impact on. Their life by reaching them through that medium.

Michelle 22:03

Yes. Yes. I love that. And I feel like if you have something to share your story, your knowledge, and you can do it and you do it, you are impacting someone’s life. And the woo-woo in me says, well, then you’ve completed your life. Like if you have made an impact on one person’s life, then you’ve done a terrific job in your lifetime. One person, that’s all you need to change. And so the ripple effect on how many people you can actually affect and impact on a single interview is huge. And it it’s what makes, I think, life even better because you can do that by simply having a conversation showing up.

Joel 22:40

My wife and I have a joke where we we basically will spend more time telling each other about a podcast episode that we heard than the podcast episode actually lasted. And because it’s so cool, you hear really neat in insight. And you have to remember that that person, if you can get that person to do that, tell their spouse, tell their friend, they’re probably gonna do it five, six, seven, maybe ten or fifteen times.

Michelle 23:10

Yes.

Joel 23:11

And that’s gonna cause someone else to listen to you. There’s gonna be a book buyer somewhere in that mix. It’s it’s gonna, there’s a ripple effect.

Michelle 23:17

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, on top of that, I I work with a lot of authors who will say, I’m building my author brand.

Mi 23:24

Yeah.

Michelle 23:25

This is building your author brand. You know, it’s not just talking about your book. And I like to emphasize that too, that it’s not just about your book. We don’t want you just to be on literary podcasts. We want you to share of yourself, share who you are so we can get to know you because that is your author brand. It is not just about the book because the hope really is you’re gonna have another book and another book and another book. So if you only focus on the one book and you don’t share of yourself, then people don’t get to know you in order to look for that next

Author Brand Impact And Standards

Michelle 23:55

book.

Joel 23:56

Awesome. Well, um, Michelle, I I I want to ask you one more question here, but before I do that, I just want to quickly encourage everybody if you’re enjoying this episode, um, please rate and review us. Subscribe to this podcast wherever you you uh wherever you subscribe to your podcast and also go check out Michelle’s book. How what what is the name of it again?

Michelle 24:18

How to get on podcasts.

Joel 24:19

How to get on podcasts, and check out the podcast matchmaker, which is her trademark title. Um but yeah, Michelle, so and we’ll include links to all this in the show notes and everything. But um, so if you’re being honest, you know, but I always think sort of like if you’re being honest, what’s what’s sort of like a what’s an uncomfortable truth that you that you could share about the the podcast uh world?

Michelle 24:44

Uh yeah, I think it’s a blessing and a curse that everyone can have one and everyone can have one.

Mi 24:49

Okay.

Michelle 24:49

Uh I think that podcasts are great because they are so accessible both as a host and as a guest and as a listener, but at the same time, sometimes I make yeah, I get cringy and I’m like, oh, but why? And that is why I think we need standards. So if I’m being honest, I think that we need more standards when it comes to pitching, when it comes to hosting, um, when it comes to being a guest. We need standards because I think that we are an industry that continues to grow. And so we deserve that golden standard of this is what it should be like to be a guest. This is this is how it should be. And if you want to be a host, these are the standards that we should all uphold to. That that is my if I’m being honest.

Joel 25:32

Oh, that’s good. I don’t know. I like that. Thank you.

Where To Find Michelle And Wrap

Joel 25:35

Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, you know, you’ve been a gold standard guest, so I appreciate you being on the show.

Michelle 25:40

Thank you. And the gold standard goes beyond after we hit recording, that I will share the episode. That is what everybody needs to do to thank you. That’s my way of saying thank you is by sharing the episode. And so everybody needs to do that too. That’s how you purpose and say thank you.

Joel 25:57

If you like that, share it. Um, all of us here. And please, so where’s the best place for people to go learn more about you?

Michelle 26:02

You can go to the mlgcollective.com.

Joel 26:05

And then I am all over social media, um, Michelle Glogovac or L-O-G-O-V-A-C for those of you who are listening.

Michelle 26:13

And then on TikTok and YouTube, it’s the podcast matchmaker.

Joel 26:17

Awesome. Well, thanks for thanks for being on the show today.

Michelle 26:20

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.